I didn’t get anything out of a lot of the information that I got from you, especially in my earlier days. I think that I was only getting part

of the data. I didn’t understand the other part, so I was frustrated.

Right, but then you also referred to yourself as a red cell that became a white cell and I would agree with that. The real question is, “Why did you keep going with it? Why not stop if you weren’t really getting that much out of it?”

I could go in different directions with that, but I’m going to go to my childhood where I had psychic abilities.

So you knew there was a level of truth in the teachings, and you could feel it in there. You knew you weren’t getting it, but you knew it was there.

I was getting the material, but I couldn’t even meditate for five years because of the house that I lived in. But I continued to receive the material anyways.

What made you get it?

A level of truth.

There you go. So it was still talking to you. It was still doing the job.

Today, even if you’ve already read it three or four times, you could read The Handbook of the Navigator again and still reap information from it.

After listening to other modules, you will get something out of it that you did not get all the other times and you’ll think, “I don’t remember him saying that. I don’t remember reading that.” It’s because you were prevented from seeing it.

I listened to the module and said that I didn’t get anything from it.

Then I’d play it again. I thought I knew what was being said, but I wasn’t sure. So I played it again. Sometimes I had to play it maybe five or six times before I got the idea, let alone knew what was being said.

But you kept doing it. Something in your soul said, “Keep listening to this.” If you sit out in the rain, you’re going to get wet. If you keep listening to the material, something is going to start clicking in that cemented brain and you’re going to see the light. You’ll awaken. You just have to expose yourself to it.

In one of the modules, you talked about structuralization versus fluidity. You said that we shouldn’t take a role because it’s too much like the Darkside. Yet in another module you said that we should

specialize in something, get good at it and then move on to the next thing. This seems like a contradiction. Can you explain what you mean?

If you ask me in the context of the material, I’m pretty consistent. It’s just whatever comes out. I need you to provide me with a more in-depth description of what was being discussed. That way, I can shed some light on what you are really asking.

You were talking about a series of thoughts that leads to a stage of enlightenment. Then you went into structuralization versus fluidity.

You said that we should be fluidic. But in the beginning, you teach people in a structured manner. You want students to become more fluidic. Yet, you are surprised that they do not select a particular role, become proficient at it and move on. Then you become proficient in everything.

Do you think that’s contradictory? You said that I told you to learn something to a certain degree and then move on to the next target to learn to a certain degree, but you’re also saying that I told you not to take on a role. If you just take it on temporarily, wouldn’t that mean not taking on a role indefinitely?

It makes sense when you put it that way.

I’m trying to guess what you are talking about. I think my emphasis was not to focus solely on developing just one skill or ability. For example, I don’t like it when someone defines himself as a healer. That is what they do for their whole life. They heal people or do telepathy or astral projection or they move their mind to explore. I don’t think it is a good thing to accept just one role.

It is excellent to dabble in something and experiment with it. Learn and develop that skill, but don’t crystallize yourself in a specific place or say that you only heal; I don’t think that is good for your spiritual growth.

If you are to serve humanity, that is fine, but you have to ask yourself, “Is my role to serve humanity or is my role to grow as a spiritual being in this dimension? Am I to utilize my time on the Earth to develop as much as I can before I move back into just consciousness?” So, I don’t see this as being a contradiction at all. I just think it’s a matter of perspective.

Should we strive to pull ourselves completely out of the matrix?

Should we strive to disconnect ourselves? You said that we should have a human experience, be in the nitty-gritty, feel the emotions, struggle and have pain because experiencing that is part of why we are here.

Won’t someone who is able to pull themselves from the matrix be able to manipulate or change reality from that state?

You don’t want to completely remove yourself from the matrix. If you do that, what is the point of even being here? Eventually, you will pull yourself completely from the matrix anyway. It’s guaranteed that we are all going to die sooner or later. It will take a lot of work to get you there.

Many people are just here, growing through their experiences. For you to be here in this life, in this moment, it’s really a choice you make. You came into the matrix to work within this program, this consciousness. When I discuss the idea of moving outside of it, it doesn’t mean to ever leave it completely. You are operating from this particular physical body. So even if you move yourself outside of the matrix, which would be to move yourself out of this program, you’re still anchored here. So you are never one hundred percent off the map. It means that you have learned to operate temporarily outside of it, but you are still very much connected to it. If you completely disconnected, that would be a complete disservice to being here.

The idea is to move outside the matrix to have self-realization. When you can move yourself outside of your body, your mind expands outside of your five senses. For the most part, you are literally moving outside of the general matrix.

There are many levels of matrixes. If you were completely outside of the matrix, there would be absolute nothingness. In the end, you are in the mind of God. That is the grand matrix. If you go outside of that, there is

really nothing else. Therefore, there is an ever connecting level of consciousness. It depends on how deep you go.

Let’s say that right now, this reality is your main matrix. When you dream, that is another matrix within it. That is a whole separate reality where you can smell, taste, hear, relate, have sex, love, and hate. It’s very, very real. Yet there are different factors, for its law of physics, for your reality. Maybe you are able to fly, or you lick something to taste it, but you don’t really taste it; rather you feel it. It feels like fuzz rather than sweetness. So the matrix rules are a bit different in that other reality.

When you take your mind out of the matrix, this main reality that you are operating in, it sometimes gives you a better perspective for seeing what you are a part of. When you’re able to step outside of it and take a look, you get greater tools to operate inside of it. When you function inside of something, you just function. You exist. You don’t realize that you have any power to change something because you can’t comprehend that there is something, a mechanism, behind it all. That’s like saying that you are part of the watch hand, but you never get outside of the watch to see that the whole purpose of the watch is to tell time. Once you go outside of it, and you understand that the whole purpose is to keep a measure of time, you can go back into the gears with an understanding of the process.

You can understand why there might be a smaller wheel versus a larger wheel and why there is a coil winding up. You can also discern the purpose of that coil.

Of course, if you wanted to tamper with those things, you could actually manipulate time if you understood the purpose of everything around you. You could say, “Well, I’m going to slow the clock down by loosening up the winding coil.” At one time, you never even knew that the winding coil was a winding coil. It was just simply something that was spanning around you in a circular motion. It could have been anything until you were able to step outside it and perceive.

So when you step outside of this matrix and are able to perceive it, or even comprehend a small part of it, you can achieve a state of consciousness where you have a knowing. That knowing is a level of enlightenment. It’s a deeper understanding that separates you from everybody else who is simply functioning. Everybody else becomes the wheels, the clock hands, and the fabric that makes up the track, which is

actually the coil that keeps time. You are able to perceive it differently, which means that your interaction becomes completely different. You are no longer part of the mechanism. If you can understand the mechanism, you are in a duality where you are part of it but you are not a part of it.

You can choose to function separately because you are no longer being moved to do something in the process. Your purpose is to be that wheel.

You now realize that you are the wheel and you can stop doing what you are doing simply because you have self-realization.

Should you insulate yourself with energy and knowledge instead of isolating yourself completely from the world?

Yes, but again to the benefit of everyone else, if you see yourself completely outside, then it’s just like when your body has a virus or a bacterial infection; like a pimple. It begins to push it out. So will this dimension. So will Gaia. It no longer sees you as a part of it. Therefore, you can go into a schizophrenic state or mental depression. It can create chaos in your life because you no longer can understand your purpose and that becomes madness.

Many white cells are prone to doing this in their awakening or enlightenment cycle. They start to see reality as being something very separate. It usually starts off with relationships on a sociological level.

They start to look at other people and find it very hard to coexist with them, to intellectually find a level of agreement. They start seeing the mechanism. They see all the people as a herd of motions all doing their job as a group. They see the matrix in segments as masses of thought or masses of people doing operations. Then they start to see the mechanism of their daily operations. It’s like a clock. They go to the bathroom at a certain time. They have an argument a certain way.